Update
Take the “Habits for Happiness Quiz: What’s the next new habit that will make you happier?”
Try This at Home
Follow the one-minute rule.
Happiness Hack
If the organizers of an event set aside a block of hotel rooms, stay there if possible.
Know Yourself Better
When you feel anxious, who or what helps you to feel more calm?
I mention Better Than Before, my book about habit change.
Listener Answers
In episode 453, inspired by “Halloween is the new Christmas,” we talked about the Try This at Home of exercising your creativity by filling in the “X is the new Y” phrase.
Readers loved this exercise, and sent us in many great examples of “__ is the new __.”
Demerits & Gold Stars
Elizabeth’s Demerit: She forgot to cancel an unwanted annual subscription.
Gretchen’s Gold Star: Thanks to all the listeners who told me that they gave Four Tendencies mugs to their co-workers. So fun!
Resource
Take my new quiz! “Habits for Happiness Quiz: What’s the next new habit that will make you happier?”
What We’re Reading
*This transcript is unedited*
Gretchen
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about how to be happier. This week we’ll talk about why we should follow the one minute rule and I will reveal a super fun new free quiz I’m launching to answer a question about happiness that I get all the time.
Gretchen
I’m Gretchen Rubin, writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature. I’m back in my little home office in New York City and joined me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I cannot wait to hear what answer you got when you took the quiz.
Elizabeth
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.. And yes, Gretch. I think I’m one of the first people to officially take your quiz.
Gretchen
Yes, I think you are. So this is my new quiz. It’s called Habits for Happiness. And it tells you what’s the next new habit that will make you happier. And I decided to do this quiz because I talk about happiness and I talk about habits. Ever since I wrote The Happiness Project and Better Than Before. And people often say to me, okay, there’s so many things I want to do.
Gretchen
Where do I start? Tell me, like, what’s the best new habit to help me become happier? And I say what I always say, which is there’s no one right way. It all depends on you. There’s no best way to cook an egg, because it depends on how you want your eggs. And people are like, No, no, no. Tell me what’s the best new habit?
Gretchen
So I thought, well, there actually is an individual answer. I don’t know what because probably I don’t know you. But there are questions that would help you figure out the answer for yourself. So you would truly get the personalized answer that would tell you what is the best new habit that would do the most to boost your happiness.
Gretchen
So you can take the quiz at happiercast.com/quiz. For you, Elizabeth, because you are my happiness guinea pig and you are so nice about always volunteering. I asked you to take the quiz, make sure it was working and everything and I am so curious. So what answer did you get?
Elizabeth
So my answer was to make mindful choices related to saving and investing money, which I thought was so interesting because, you know, I’m in this whole time of listening to books about business. Yeah, podcast about business and thinking about this stuff. I just got Jack for Christmas. Mom and Dad got him this thing where he can invest in companies.
Elizabeth
So it’s just very on target for what I’m interested in right now.
Gretchen
But here’s the other thing that I would point out that like when I think about your 24 for 24 list and other things, it’s not the kind of thing that you tend to work on. And I think that’s often the case, which is the thing that we really kind of need to do. Maybe we don’t feel comfortable with or we feel intimidated by.
Gretchen
And so we work on the things that are easier to work on than the things that are maybe harder to work on. So, for instance, I would say the whole making a will thing, which is probably when you’re really thinking about all the other things you’re working on and this you’re sort of learning about it. And but I do to me as your sister, this rings true in terms of this is something where Yeah, think about this.
Elizabeth
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t think I have anything on my list, in fact, toward this goal.
Gretchen
I don’t think finishing your will is on your list now.
Elizabeth
Because I’m still not clear where we are on that. Okay. But of course, it’s because I don’t want to deal with it that I’m not looking into it. So. No, you’re absolutely right. I need to make this again the habit of it. Part of my everyday right? So the quiz worked for me.
Gretchen
that’s great. So when you take the quiz, what you get is you get your result. There’s many and it will be individualized to you. So this isn’t just like a standard result. This is based on your answers. It’ll tell you. Okay, why would that aim probably make you happier. It would tell you aims to consider. Elizabeth With your aim, here are some ideas of the kinds of things that are likely to be useful.
Gretchen
Yes, there are no yourself better questions. So again, you can really tailor your approach to you, not only your aim, but how you try to achieve that aim. Because again, there’s a lot of ways to do these things. You want to try the way that’s most likely to work for you. Then there’s always a few notes of caution, like, Watch out for this.
Gretchen
Watch out for that, and then resources. So if you want to dig deeper. So I hope that people will really enjoy it. I worked with a brilliant team. I love making a quiz and this is just something that people often ask me, and I’ve been frustrated that I didn’t have a simple way to answer because how do you personalize it but how people can personalize it to themselves?
Gretchen
So I’m very excited about this quiz.
Elizabeth
Yes. No, you’re I just remembered I do have as do, you know, spend February. So that’s.
Gretchen
Interesting.
Elizabeth
Yep. The Ali of saving money. Well.
Gretchen
And the reason we did it is we thought it might reveal patterns and insights. Okay. So that’s good.
Elizabeth
So you talking about.
Gretchen
Okay, so in February, maybe we’ll do this, like do a deep dive into this general area and maybe as part of preparing for that, you can unearth the information around the will situations. Yeah. Okay. So again that’s staging.gretchenrubin.com/quiz. Take it. See what you find out. Well and that would take you about a minute probably to take that quiz which is a nice lead into I tried this at home this week I tried this at on tip is to follow the one minute rule.
Elizabeth
Yeah so Gretchen we talked about the one minute rule in our very first Yes.
Gretchen
Number one.
Elizabeth
But it may be new to some of our listeners who have not heard episode one also, because this is such a good tip, we decided we want to remind everyone about it, even if they heard about it way back in episode one.
Gretchen
Yeah, because sometimes you know something, but you know you need to be reminded of it. So the one minute rule is very simple. It’s that if there’s anything that you can do in less than a minute, you do it without delay. So if you can print out a document, sign it and scan it. If you can carry a dirty coffee cup and stick it in the dishwasher if you can, here’s my favorite.
Gretchen
If you can hang up your coat instead of throwing it on a chair, if you can carry something from one room to another, anything you can do in less than a minute, you do without delay.
Elizabeth
Or like even, you know, make a doctor’s appointment. Yes. Answer an email answering an attack. Yes. All of those things which hang on your head, but really only take a minute.
Gretchen
Well, and that’s exactly why I wanted to bring it up again, because I haven’t been doing this in recent months. I’ve sort of fallen out of the habit of it. And yet it’s so powerful because the thing is, we feel very weighed down by those little tasks. They make us feel like we’re surrounded by things that we have to do.
Gretchen
And even if those things are very inconsequential and simple and easy, it just gives you that feeling of like, my gosh, I’ve got so much to do, so much to do. Whereas if you just do it as you go, you know, it’s not like you have to take any extra time because these are such small, brief tasks that they just get done as you go about your business.
Gretchen
And I have to say, of all the things that I’ve suggested, this is the one that people most often mentioned to me is like, Wow, I really saw a benefit from this right away. This really boosted my happiness.
Elizabeth
And why do you think that is?
Gretchen
Part of it is that research shows that we overestimate what we can do in a short time, like, what can I do today? What can I do in a weekend? And we underestimate what we can do if we do a little consistently. And this is part of don’t break the chain or a lot of times the annual challenge is like write 2 to 4 minutes.
Gretchen
You might say, Well, writing 2 to 4 minutes is so small, that’s not one minute, but it’s potentially 2 minutes, which is not that much more. But if you do it consistently, you can get a lot done without saying, okay, I have to block off 2 hours on my calendar or I need to take an afternoon every weekend, which can feel, you know, for people who have, you know, busy lives that can just feel like an insurmountable burden doing something one minute at a time feels.
Elizabeth
Possible like this. This is sort of gradual. It deals with the outer clutter of life and the inner clutter.
Gretchen
Yes, outer order contributes to inner calm, whether it’s physical or mental. This is helpful. And, you know, I think this kind of reminds me about what we say about a demerit where by saying a demerit out loud, a lot of times it helps us to do a better job because we’ve sort of gone through the motions of articulating it.
Gretchen
And I think that by saying this is a very valuable tread system, I’m hoping that that will remind me and kickstart me back, because I used to do this very, very faithfully. But I feel myself slipping and and that’s just a less pleasant way to live.
Elizabeth
Yeah. This is going to remind me to close those cabinet door. Yes. Yes. I’ll look at a cabinet door and go, Yeah, really worth it. But if I follow the one minute rule, I’ve got to close the door and see.
Gretchen
I love doing that. To me, that is like the quickest, easiest way to give myself a little boost. But I know that’s where we differ.
Elizabeth
Right. Just one more thing I want to mention is the one minute rule can also apply to all the self-care thing. Yeah, we talk about like putting on moisturizer or flossing. Yeah, brushing your teeth after lunch, Even though you’re supposed to brush your teeth for 2 minutes, you could do it for one zero. Yeah. Putting on and high mask, all those things that people feel like they want to do, but they don’t have time.
Elizabeth
Yes, a lot of them only take a minute.
Gretchen
Yes, I know. Anything can be in the one minute rule. So let us know if you do try this at home and how following the one minute rule works for you, do you find it helpful? What are the kinds of things that you find yourself doing? Are they administrative tasks? Are they household tasks? Are they work tasks? Are they returning a text from a friend?
Gretchen
We’re very interested to hear. Let us know on Instagram, Threads. Tik Tok, Facebook drop us an email at podcast@staging.gretchenrubin.com Or as always you can go to the show notes. This is episode 464 so you can go to happiercast.com/464 for everything related to this episode.
Elizabeth
Coming up, we have a hotel hack but first this break.
Elizabeth
All right, Gretchen, we are back with this week’s Happiness Hack.
Gretchen
Yes. So this hack occurred to me or experienced this hack recently when I went to Washington, D.C. for all the services surrounding the death of Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. So I knew the dates, all the ceremonies would be taking place. So I made a hotel reservation. But then I got an email for all the clerks saying, Hey, there’s going to be a hotel.
Gretchen
We have a rate and there’s limited ones, but you can sign up. And, you know, you often see this like if there’s a big event or wedding or something, they’ll put aside a block of hotel rooms and then you can often get a better deal. And I thought about it. I’m like, Well, I already got my hotel reservations.
Gretchen
But I realized, well, one thing, the hotel was very convenient to Capitol Hill where a lot of the things were happening. Plus, I was taking the train. And I realized that this hotel I could walk to and from Union Station. So that would just make my life easier. And it was a good deal. It was a really good financial deal.
Gretchen
But the reason that I actually changed my mind was I thought, hey, you know, maybe other people that I know will be staying there. And so there’s a bazillion hotels in Washington, D.C. But if I stay at this one, there’s a greater likelihood that I’ll just run into people that I know or whatever. So I did. I changed it, even though there was sort of that extra step to, like, undo one and make another one.
Gretchen
And I was so happy that I did it. And now I’m really going to make it a policy that if there is a suggested hotel, always try to stay at the suggested hotel unless there’s some reason affirmatively not to stay at that hotel.
Elizabeth
Well, Gretch, I so agree with this. And for that reason, if I think I even might go to something like some sort of podcast convention, let’s say, then I go ahead and make my hotel reservation right away because I want to make sure I’m in the right hotel. Yes. And then I put on my calendar when I need to cancel it by not to get charged.
Elizabeth
Right. Because if I’m going to go to an event, I absolutely want to be at the hotel that’s recommended for all those reasons. And they often sell out.
Gretchen
And they often sell out. That’s the thing. So you have to act quickly. And here’s the thing. So I did see friends. There’s a woman that I’m friends with. She was editor in chief of the Law Journal the year after me, and she clerked the year after me. So we’ve sort of been on these parallel paths and she was just having breakfast when I came down to have breakfast.
Gretchen
And so I was like, Can I join you for breakfast? I just asked myself, like, so I got a really lovely time to just catch up with her, which I wouldn’t otherwise have had that chance. I met a bunch of people because we scheduled Ubers to go to the National Cathedral from this hotel. And so it’s like, okay, let’s all share one.
Gretchen
And so we were in the car and we all chatted and caught up and we had a lot of I hadn’t known them well before, but it was, it really added a whole new element to the experience. And I saved money and hassle and it was just, it was really worth it. And I’ve sort of done this intermittently.
Gretchen
It sounds like you really make a point of doing it now. I’m really going to make a point of doing it. There’s a lot of reasons that this makes.
Elizabeth
Sense and you being an upholder Gretchen, sometimes you don’t. You get rigid and you don’t want to undo a plan that you’ve made. So I know for you for saying that.
Gretchen
Is exactly what happened. I was like, my gosh, like, it’s on my calendar that I’m going to this other hotel. How can I now undo this? It is written in stone and I had to really talk myself through like, It’s okay, it’s very far away. You can just change reservation. So you’re exactly right For me, undoing that plan took a little bit of extra work.
Elizabeth
That hack.
Gretchen
Good hack. And now for a know yourself better question, I think this is a very useful question to know the answer to, which is when you feel anxious, who or what helps you to feel more calm?
Elizabeth
Well, this is such a useful know yourself better question because it’s like identifying your healthy traits, which we always talk about. You need healthy treats and if you have that list in your head of things that work for you, you can turn to them at the right time rather than the unhealthy. Just the crutches that we fall back on to get through something.
Gretchen
Yes, right. Because it’s when we’re under stress, when we’re feeling anxious, when we feel low energy, when we need a treat, when we need to calm ourselves down, we often turn to unhealthy options like food or drink or scrolling or shopping. And so it’s really good to think, okay, what are the tools that I have? What are the things that work for me that help me to feel calmer when I’m feeling anxious or worked up?
Gretchen
So is what calms you down.
Elizabeth
So two things really come to mind. One is talking to Sarah, my writing partner and co-host of Happier in Hollywood, because often when I’m feeling anxious, it’s about work and she understands my work better than anyone.
Gretchen
Obviously, you know what, Elizabeth? What about that? Is that sometimes you’re talking to me about something that you’re anxious, and I can tell from what you say that I’m not understanding it in a way that is allowing me to help calm you down. Like my answers are not really helpful, not because I’m not caring, but because I just don’t have a sophisticated enough understanding of what you’re going through to be able to be like a truly helpful listener.
Gretchen
And I can tell that I’m like, I’m not making things better. Like, I’m not asking the questions that are leading her to more calm. I might be making her feel more irritated or more frustrated or getting her more worked up. And so I think sometimes probably Sarah is the one who really enters because what you do is very hard to understand from the outside, but she understands it from the inside.
Elizabeth
Yeah. So talking to her can calm me down. And then the other thing is going out and doing Fryman Canyon, obviously so many people feel better and more calm when they exercise, but especially for me doing Fryman Canyon, where I’m in nature, where I’m appreciating lots. And doing something I’m familiar with. So I’m very comfortable. Often I’ll start off in a bad mood and then I’ll end up in a great mood.
Elizabeth
So that’s really a useful tool for me.
Gretchen
Well, and Elizabeth, I know that during the strike, one of the reasons that you were able to like, blow through your Fryman in 50 and hit Fryman 100 is that you were really using it as a tool to help yourself calm down. You were reaching for that. So that’s a good example of how knowing that something helps calm you down.
Gretchen
Then you’re like, I need to feel calmer. Therefore I will go do this thing because I know it will have that effect on me. Yes. And it worked.
Elizabeth
It helped. How about you? What makes you feel calmer?
Gretchen
I like to rewatch and reread, which you do not. But I love to. And if I’m very, very stressed out, I will reread my favorite works of children’s literature. And the funny thing is, I’ve realized is that the more stressed out I am, the further back in time I go. So it’s one thing if I’m reading Philip Pullman, which I’ve reread a million times, but if I were reading Ramona books.
Elizabeth
Yeah.
Gretchen
It’s bad. And then I’ve been known to go back to like bees, for God’s sake, you know? So I will use children’s literature or I have got the full set of Louisa May Alcott. I’ll pull out eight cousins and reread a couple chapters, and that really calms me down.
Elizabeth
Well, I remember at one point you had a book coming out and you were saving. Yes. Rereading all of Harry Potter for that period of time. Yeah.
Gretchen
Keep yourself calm 100%. I saved it so that I wouldn’t wear it out. Great memory was a it was when I was doing the revisions for better than before. When you look at that book, it looks so straight forward. You’re like, What’s the big deal? This is like the most straightforward book of all time. It’s hard to make it simple.
Gretchen
And so I leaned on that. But another thing that I do, and this is something that I do very often, which is I really am one of these these people where a good night’s sleep really does make me feel better. And if I’m really stressed out, I will. If I can, I will go to bed at like 8:30 p.m. because I’m like, I just know I’ll feel better in the morning.
Gretchen
I have more distance, I have more energy, I think more clearly in the morning. And so if something’s stressing me out and it’s night, which often when we’re feeling anxious, I feel like at least for me, it’s often worse. At night. I remind myself it might not be different in the morning, but I will probably feel better. And I often I don’t have it useless.
Gretchen
But working makes me feel calmer. Just writing something makes me feel calmer. So often I will just feel like, okay, one and I just because then as people are like, if you’re stressed out, you’ll feel worse if you, like, sit down and work. But I actually find that it often calms me. Maybe that’s being an upholder or, or maybe it’s being a writer.
Elizabeth
I think that goes to the action of, you know, to anxiety. Yeah. Doing something. Yes. Yeah, that does help me too. Yeah.
Gretchen
Yeah. So that’s interesting because I think some people are like, you’re anxious, you should lighten the load, but that might not actually make you feel better. For us, at least, doing work makes us feel better. So now, speaking of better than before, that’s where we I have a whole discussion about healthy treats and why treats are different for me.
Gretchen
Rewards which you have to earn or justify a healthy treat is just something that gives you energy. So it’s really helpful when you need it. Just the way having these tools to help calm you down can help you if you’re feeling worked up.
Elizabeth
Yeah, Great. I’m curious what calms listeners? Yes, what people? If there are certain people, they talk to their dog, their. Yeah. Dogs are another thing I think that can be very helpful.
Gretchen
Holding a sleeping baby. I remember that was something that would call me down. Holding a crying baby will not calm you down, but all these living baby.
Elizabeth
Yes. In fact, when Jack was little, one of the things I would do if I was really anxious was just go in and lay down next to him. Yes. And just being near him sleeping would make me feel so much better nowadays If I did that, he would elbow me, but I had to get out of there. But but that was great when he was little.
Gretchen
Yeah. So, yeah, I can’t wait to hear what listeners suggest. We can all learn from each other. It’s good to have like a long list of ideas. And speaking of answers from listeners, in episode 453 for fun, we talked about the try this at home idea of exercising your creativity by doing the fill in the blank of X is the new Y.
Gretchen
This this was inspired by the observation that Halloween is the new Christmas. And so in episode 453, we said, Hey, send us in what you come up with when you do this, Try this at home. And readers love this exercise. We had so many insightful, creative examples that just rang so true. I was laughing out loud. So let’s go through these.
Elizabeth
Saving Is the new spending.
Gretchen
Sober is the new drug.
Elizabeth
Rest is the new busy.
Gretchen
Edibles are the new alcohol.
Elizabeth
Zoom is the new board room.
Gretchen
Electric scooters are the new skateboards.
Elizabeth
Glucose meters are the new bathroom scale.
Gretchen
Socks and slides are the new sneakers.
Elizabeth
Experiences are the new material things.
Gretchen
Smartphones are the new wallet’s.
Elizabeth
Influence, others are the new celebrities.
Gretchen
Self-care is the new happy hour.
Elizabeth
Athleisure is the new business casual. We’ll both agree to that. Yeah.
Gretchen
Yeah. Nostalgia is the new innovation.
Elizabeth
That’s very true in TV.
Gretchen
Garage authenticity is the new perfection.
Elizabeth
Minimalism is the new opulence.
Gretchen
Online dating is the new blind date.
Elizabeth
Voice is the new keyboard.
Gretchen
Well, this is very appropriate for me because on May 24, 424 list, I have this thing I want to start using voice instead of keyboard. So I was like, This is true.
Elizabeth
Nature is the new gym.
Gretchen
Equity is the new equality.
Elizabeth
Crowdfunding is the new Grant’s.
Gretchen
Meal kits are the new take out.
Elizabeth
YouTube tutorials Are the new home economics.
Gretchen
so true.
Elizabeth
Yes, Adam watches YouTube tutorials constantly and then goes and fixes something.
Gretchen
Super is the new really really was the new very.
Elizabeth
Micro is the new small.
Gretchen
Air fryers are the new spiralizer is i.e. the latest kitchen gadget. I would also add insta pot to that one.
Elizabeth
And then finally Don said we have legal marijuana in Michigan, and according to some people, it’s the cure for whatever ails you. So mine is pot is the new snake oil. And then she said, Thanks for the fun challenge. I’ve been thinking about it all day.
Gretchen
Well, thank you, everyone. This is just delightful. I love seeing people’s creativity at work. It really does help you see the world in a new way. I think these are so clever.
Elizabeth
Me too. I love them. All right, Gretch, coming up, I give myself a demerit that I have a feeling many listeners might share. But first, this break.
Gretchen
Okay, listen. It is time for demerits and gold stars. And this is an even numbered episode, which means it’s time for you to give yourself a demerit.
Elizabeth
Okay, great. My demerit is not canceling an annual subscription that I don’t want.
Gretchen
We’ve all done.
Elizabeth
The charge comes up on my phone, and I just go, dang, I meant to cancel that. Now I’ve paid for it. That’s such a bad feeling. I will say this did happen to me a few months ago, and I managed to write the company cancel and get a refund. But that’s not easy to do. Anyways, so I just.
Elizabeth
I need to go through and cancel all of these subscriptions, which is why I’m mentioning it as a demerit so that I can.
Gretchen
I point out how fitting this is for your quiz result.
Elizabeth
Yes, it is.
Gretchen
Because it goes to saving and investing money. Does. I think that is insane.
Elizabeth
So how funny. You’re right. Right. my gosh.
Gretchen
This is something that I just did this myself with something very expensive. I think part of it is that time passes faster than you think. And you’re like, I have months and months and months to deal with it. And then before you know, it, the charge shows up.
Elizabeth
Yes.
Gretchen
So it’s a good thing to be reminded of.
Elizabeth
Yes. All right, Gretch, what about you? What’s your gold star?
Gretchen
I want to give a gold star to all the listeners who said they gave tendency mugs to their coworkers. Apparently, this is like a thing where if you’re doing Secret Santa or you’re buying something for the team, people got the tendency, because I have new designs, so they’re color coded. Each of the tenancies has a color associated with it and it has the motto of each tendency and what your tendency is.
Gretchen
And I just got the biggest kick out of thinking of people in there. I always think of like in the office, how Kelly made them all mugs, that each had a mug with a star with their face on it or something. And I love that. If you have a picture of like everyone’s mug in the drying rack or something, I would love to see it.
Gretchen
If you want to see the mugs, I’ll put a picture in the show notes or you can go to a happiercast.com/shop and look for Drinkware. They’re really good looking. I gave some. I gave some to Mom and dad. And to you, Elizabeth, I think.
Elizabeth
Yes. I was going to say, I’ve been using my new obliging mug. I’ve got a bit of a collection.
Gretchen
Yes, you do. It’s through the ages. Yeah. But anyway, thank you to listeners who let me know about that, because I really did get the biggest kick from that. So thank you. And the resource, while I think no one will be surprised, the resources to take the new quiz happiercat.com/quiz it is short. It’s free. Let me know what you make of your result.
Gretchen
Does it ring true? What are you planning to do? You know, I’m insatiably curious about what people decide to do and how they decide to do it. So let me know.
Elizabeth
It’s an interesting quiz to take. The questions are interesting.
Gretchen
Good, good. And what are we reading? Elizabeth, What are you reading?
Elizabeth
I am reading Winter in Paradise by Elin Hilderbrand.
Gretchen
And I am reading The Last Cuentista by Donna Barba Higuera. And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Follow the one minute rule. It only takes a minute. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
Elizabeth
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Cadence 13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram and Threads and Tik Tok. Gretchen Rubin and I’m on Instagram and threads at Liz Craft. Our email address is podcast@staging.gretchenrubin.com
Gretchen
Here it comes. I said it once. I’m going to say it again, please. If you like this show, recommend it to a friend. This is how people find out about podcasts. Elizabeth How often have you listen to a podcast? Because a friend said, Hey, you have to listen to this podcast.
Elizabeth
At least once.
Gretchen
A week, Constantly, constantly. So take a minute or even just share the link with a friend. You can just email the link. I’m starting to do that, I would say constantly. Perhaps too often. But when you find a great podcast, it’s so fun to recommend it.
Elizabeth
Until next week, I’m Elizabeth Craft.
Gretchen
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
Elizabeth
Gretch. The idea that athleisure is the new business casual actually makes me realize I do need to up my athleisure, feel like my athleisure is quite tired at this point.
Gretchen
You know what I would say? I was heavily encouraged by Eliza, Eleanor and Jamie to do that. And so I went with Eleanor and like got nicer athleisure and people actually comment on it.
Elizabeth
Yeah.
Gretchen
So, so it’s it matters. It’s real clothes now. It’s not Yeah, not real clothes. It’s like actually your clothes.
Elizabeth
Yes.
Gretchen
They all from the onward project.