Update
Announcing…my new book! Life in Five Senses: How Exploring the Senses Got Me Out of My Head and Into the World. It’s hard to believe that it will hit the shelves on April 18.
Here’s the description:
For more than a decade, Gretchen Rubin had been studying happiness and human nature. Then, one day, a visit to her eye doctor made her realize that she’d been overlooking a key element of happiness: her five senses. She’d spent so much time stuck in her head that she’d allowed the vital sensations of life to slip away, unnoticed. This epiphany lifted her from a state of foggy preoccupation into a world rediscovered by seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching.
In this journey of self-experimentation, Rubin explores the mysteries and joys of the five senses as a path to a happier, more mindful life. Drawing on cutting-edge science, philosophy, literature, and her own efforts to practice what she learns, she investigates the profound power of tuning in to the physical world.
Life in Five Senses is an absorbing, layered story of discovery filled with profound insights and practical suggestions about how to heighten our senses and use our powers of perception to live fuller, richer lives—and, ultimately, how to move through the world with more vitality and love.
Try This at Home
In honor of Life in Five Senses: Tune in to your five senses.
Happiness Hack
If you’re full of dread, it’s comforting to remember that once the dreaded thing begins, the bad feeling usually vanishes because you’re so absorbed in whatever is happening.
Deep Dive into #Outside23in23
Listeners had great suggestions about how to “Go Outside 23 in ’23” even in bad weather.
We discuss getting the right gear, setting clear rules, bringing a dog, creating an outdoor space — or sitting by an open window when it’s too tough to step outdoors.
Demerits & Gold Stars
- Gretchen’s Demerit: Rather than mentioning it to my family, I just kept putting up with peanut-butter-covered spoons.
- Elizabeth’s Gold Star: She gives herself a gold star for consistently doing all her tracking in the Happier app and in her Don’t Break the Chain Journal.
Resources
Read an excerpt of my forthcoming book, Life in Five Senses. What a joy it was to write this book!
What we’re reading
Gretchen:
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we discuss strategies and suggestions for how to build happier lives. This week we’ll talk about why and how we can tune into our five senses. And we’ll do a Deep Dive into listener suggestions about how to Go Outside 23 in 23 when the weather is bad.
[Music]
I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses, and human nature. I’m in New York City, and joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft, who has graciously participated in so many of my Five-Senses experiment.
Elizabeth:
Now it’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a T.V. writer and producer living in L.A., and Gretchen, speaking of the five senses, we have an exciting announcement. Your book is out in the world, or at least available for preorder.
Gretchen:
Yes, it’s not actually on the shelves, but you can see the cover. You can read all about it. You can preorder it, which I highly, highly, highly recommend. Buy early and often. And if you want to read an excerpt or read more about it, just go to staging.gretchenrubin.com/books.
Elizabeth:
Yes. And you have a gorgeous cover on the book. Go and see the cover. And I preordered. So I’m set.
Gretchen:
Well, you’re such a good sister, but yeah, the cover is a little bit of a departure. The color scheme is different from my previous books, so that’s kind of fun. It’s fun to be in a new colorway.
Elizabeth:
I love it. And by the way, in case they sound a bit off today, we’re having some technical difficulties, which Chuck will probably magic away on his side of things. But in case there’s some difference, we’re having technical difficulties.
Gretchen:
Technology is great when it works.
And before we launch and we have a bunch of updates from people. First of all, talking about what were some of people’s favorite ideas from previous episodes. On the idea of Power Hour, Colleen wrote, “A long time ago I eliminated the Power Hour from my day because I felt that doing menial and undesirable tasks in that time did not make me feel powerful at all. Productive, maybe, but powerful? Not really. Instead, I call it Knock Block—a chunk of time set aside for things I need to do but am not excited about. Additionally, I can decide how long the block needs to be based on what’s on the list. Why take a whole hour when 15 or 20 minutes will do to knock it off my list?”
Great.
Elizabeth:
I love that. And then Terry had a tip for me about flossing every night, which is on my 23 for 23 list. She said, “I had to share how I conquered the habit of flossing. The simplicity is the best part. I just floss before I brush. I told myself I can’t brush my teeth until I floss. I would never not brush my teeth. I have been flossing without fail ever since.”
Gretchen:
So that’s a great example of pairing. It’s like you can’t brush unless you floss. So perfect pair.
Alison said, “I was inspired by a recent podcast discussion on accountability and eliciting the help of a friend to be each other’s accountability partners. I decided to take it 12 steps further by having a different accountability buddy for each month of 2023. I really, really, really want to finish the first draft of my novel. In a burst of inspiration, I jotted down 12 people in my life who could cheer me on and strategically chose their month based on things like ‘I’ll be visiting them for ten days in March so that’ll be a good time for my brother to sync up with me.’
“Or one is a school teacher, so I chose June when she would be full of energy to tackle her goals during her summer vacation. I like the idea of having a recharged look at my goal each month and deepening my relationship with 12 people this year through a month of motivating texts back and forth. In return, I hope I can inspire them for their month to reach their goals. In a way, it’s like I’ll be running a marathon in 2023 and these people will be at significant mile markers cheering me on.”
This is great.
Elizabeth:
It’s a fun idea.
Gretchen:
Yeah. And you know, it can be a lot of work to be an accountability partner. So this is good. It’s like you swap them in and out. You keep them fresh.
Elizabeth:
Yes. Here’s another play on ’23. Angie says, “Because relationships are such an essential element for happiness, my sisters and I have set our phone alarms for 2:40 every day. Get it? 20 to 3. And when it goes off, we think of 2 to 3 things we are grateful for that day. It unites us knowing across the country and across borders. We are united at that moment, which makes us happy.”
That’s so sweet.
Gretchen:
In response to episode 412’s Try This at Home to turn deprivation into indulgence, Mandy in Texas (which is a big state, which a significant), she wrote, “One way I’ve been indulging during my Dry January is trying new restaurants that are about a 20 to 40 minute drive from our home. Normally I would have a glass of wine with dinner and not feel comfortable driving in unfamiliar territory or on a highway. So this has been a lot of fun and actually makes me think drinking alcohol takes away from choosing the bigger life.”
So she’s indulging in trying exciting new restaurants.
Elizabeth:
Yes, great ideas.
Gretchen:
And now for the Try This at Home Tip. Elizabeth, our Try This at Home Tip is to tune into your five senses. I cannot stop talking about the five senses or thinking about the five senses. It is so much fun to tap into our five senses. We can cheer up, calm down, get energized, get sparked creatively, remember the people and places and experiences we love, appreciate the moment. Like there’s just no end to it.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, well, Gretchen, what is the subtitle of your book that gets to this very point?
Gretchen:
Yes, the subtitle to my book is “How Exploring the Senses Got Me out of My Head and Into the World.” Yeah, it got me out of just feeling stuck in my head all the time and out and engaged with the world. But here’s one of the things that surprised me the most is when we’re tapping into our five senses and we’re out in the world, you think, “Oh, the world is the objective world. And I’m experiencing more or less what you’re experiencing.” But what is just bonkers is really how differently we each experience the world.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. So you and I were talking about it. It’s like sirens, for instance. You don’t hear sirens a lot of the time because you’re so used to them in New York City. But when we’re doing the podcast, Chuck, of course, could hear sirens, you know, pop out right away.
Gretchen:
Yeah. And with you, it’s the Corgis barking because Chuck and I will be like, “Wait, you want to get to Corgis?” And you’re like, “Oh, yeah, they’re barking,” because the brain tells us what we need to know. It’s a difference detector. And so if it knows that something doesn’t really matter, it can fade out.
Anyway, there’s so many examples of all the gains that we can make from tuning into the five senses. But today let’s just focus on the pure delight of the five senses. And so what this Try This at Home is, is to go through your five senses and figure out at least one thing to do that is either going to increase pleasure, decrease annoyance, or boost your engagement.
You know, this is a choose your own adventure and let’s just throw out some ideas for how people might do this.
Elizabeth:
Well, one thing that comes to mind, getting rid of scratchy, tight clothes or that they’re stiff or too loose. Just anything weird about your clothes.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Anything that you just don’t like because it’s just not comfortable. I think that’s that’s something that’s really caught on lately in the last year or two. It’s like it’s got to be really comfortable if anybody’s going to wear it.
Another thing is to find things that smell good. Now, some people love perfume, some people don’t like perfume. Some people buy fresh flowers, but you can even just smell like a spice bottle in your kitchen drawer. There’s so many wonderful smells. Oranges, fresh towels. There are so many good smells if you stop and pay attention. Oh, I love the smell of cinnamon.
Elizabeth:
And then, Gretchen, this is something we’ve talked about lately. You could write a Five-Senses Portrait of yourself or someone else. Do you want to just explain briefly what that is?
Gretchen:
Yeah. So this is something that has really caught people’s imaginations. So you write a Five-Senses Portrait of maybe of someone else, and it’s either like it could be a gift for them, as people have said, like it really makes you feel appreciated and seen. Or maybe you’re doing it to remember someone who’s gone. So you really want to, like, capture those memories that are, you know, very concrete, very grounded in the body.
Or you could do for yourself. It’s funny. It’s like after I wrote the book, my editor said, “Gretchen, for your About section, About The Author, you should do a Five-Senses Portrait of yourself, which was actually like a super… I’d written a whole book about the five senses and my five senses and yet, even for me it was like a really interesting kind of crystallization of self-knowledge.
You could also do it about a place like if your family always goes to the same place for a week every year, maybe it’s like, “Oh, let’s write a Five-Senses Portrait of this place.” So it’s a very creative exercise. It’s very satisfying. It might be hard to think of them, but then it’s easier to write them down.
And I do a set of five things in each category, so you end up with 25 elements is how I do it.
Elizabeth:
You can also, Gretch, choose your walk-up song.
Gretchen:
Right. This is the song that they play when like players come out and it’s high energy and full of power and somehow connects to you. So this is like a fun choose your song. Some people have this is like their alarm tone in the morning.
Elizabeth:
I love that.
Gretchen:
Well, here’s one Elizabeth that came out of our recent conversation about our one word theme. And we’ve been doing this for years, but I hadn’t thought about it in this context, about like tapping into sight. Because with our one word themes, we’ve fallen into this pattern of finding visual representations of our themes. And that itself has become a really fun aspect.
So like you had fun finding visualizations of scale. I have been looking for the wave, the great wave, which is, you know, such a super famous artwork. And so it’s fun to spot those in the world. And so find a visual theme. Either it’s tied your one word theme, maybe it’s not, but it’s something that you can visualize that’s a theme for you.
Elizabeth:
And then, Gretch, people don’t think of our phones as being related to the five senses…
Gretchen:
They seem like the opposite of the five senses, right?
Elizabeth:
I know. But actually the phone kind of hits most of our five senses.
Gretchen:
Right? Right. So you can think about the visual of it. So we’ve talked about this like eliminate apps you don’t use. Arrange them, so like most popular or at least popular. Maybe don’t fill the screen so it’s not so crowded. People do things like organize them by colors that are just more pleasing or, you know, using folders so that there’s more room.
You can also make your alarm sound more pleasant because there’s a real range. Some are cacophonous and some are more, more mellifluous. You can use grayscale, set your phone to grayscale. That’ll make it much easier to put your phone down because it’s a lot harder to use a phone that’s in black, white and gray. Turning off notifications so that you’re not buzzing and beeping and vibrating. There’s a lot of things to do with your phone.
Elizabeth:
Yes. The smell, I don’t think that figured out yet how to make smell.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Coming soon.
Elizabeth:
You know, that’s coming. Some day. Yeah. And then speaking of smell, you can also in your life get rid of something that’s bad-smelling.
Gretchen:
I mean, I remember years ago I had bought this fancy advanced diaper cream for Eleanor, and it just smelled terrible. And I remember it really as an Underbuyer, it was so hard for me to just be like, “You know what? This is not working. “And I’m like, spreading this nasty smelling paste on my little beautiful, precious baby. I had to get rid of it. I still remember because it was just such a relief to get rid of that bad smell.
Elizabeth:
Yeah. And Going Outside 23 and 23, Gretchen, you can also all really pay attention to the smells good or bad that are outside. When I walk the dogs in the same walk, there’s a strong smell that’s slangily called a garlic plant. It has a very pungent odor. I could smell jasmine, I can smell a dumpster. All these different smells in one block.
Gretchen:
Yeah, well, what I find is that even a bad smell gives you a feeling of vitality. There’s just a richness to it. And then, you know, the people who lost their smell, sense of smell, whether temporarily or sadly, permanently from COVID. Like I had some friends who lost their sense of smell and they talked about like, it’s easy to take it for granted. But tuning into it really brings this element to your life. I think New York City is famous for its smells, but it has many good smells and many bad smells. It’s a very smelly place.
Elizabeth:
Well, one thing I could do to tap into my five senses, I was thinking, Gretchen, is you sent me a silk pillowcase because I’ve always wanted one. But me being me, have I used it yet? No, I have not. So I need to put on the silk pillowcase.
Gretchen:
Oh, good. Yeah. You know, I wondered if you remembered that because that’s last Christmas. Not even this Christmas.
Elizabeth:
I know. You know, I mean…
Gretchen:
Because when you were little you wanted it.
Elizabeth:
I wanted it. Yes. And I’m sure it’ll feel wonderful against my face.
Gretchen:
Well, let us know if you do Try This at Home and how tuning into your five senses works for you. What did you do to tune into your five senses? We can all get great ideas from each other. Let us know on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, drop us an email and podcast@staging.gretchenrubin.com, or go to happiercast.com/413 for everything related to this episode.
Elizabeth:
Coming up, we’ve got a Happiness Hack about dealing with dread. But first, this break.
[Music]
Elizabeth:
Okay, Gretchen, it is time for this week’s Happiness Hack.
Gretchen:
Okay. This is a hack that occurred to me that I want to share. Okay. So, you know, dread. You know, you had this bad feeling about something that’s happening, like maybe I’m giving a big talk for the first time or something like that, and you just have this dread.
And then Eleanor, you know, had to take the ACT this year. And she had a lot of dread about it. And in talking to her about it, I realized something that is very helpful. That sometimes when you dread something, you’re feeling is kind of growing and growing. It tends you tends to feel more dread as the thing approaches. But what’s comforting to remember is that when the thing is actually happening, you will not be flooded with bad feelings.
They will go away because when whatever you’re doing is actually happening, at least for me, I’m so preoccupied with dealing with whatever… I’m so preoccupied with the T.V. appearance or giving the presentation. Or I remember this when I was taking the Bar. The night before the Bar, I was like, “I just want the Bar to start because I know once I’m taking the Bar, I’ll be so busy answering the questions that I won’t even have an emotional response.”
So I will have relief. So like the dreaded event will actually bring relief because I think in advance you think, “Oh, it’s just going to get worse and worse and worse.” But actually, no, right before is the worst, not during.
Elizabeth:
Yes. And also the time flies. Even a long three hour exam, it speeds by because you are so preoccupied. So yeah, I always remind myself that about pitching. I dread pitching. But then once we start, we’re just doing it.
Gretchen:
And the thing to remember is that negative emotions have a positive purpose often. So dread is good because it prompts us to prepare, like you and Sarah prepare your pitch and get ready and really haven’t figured out. I studied for the Bar because I’m like… the dread is reminding me to study.
Now too much of it or if you’re not acting on it, it’s not good. And every medicine can become poison. I mean, with procrastination, I always remind myself the stewing is worse than the doing. And this is kind of even beyond that. This is like the dread of it. So anyway, I just found that helpful to remember that when the dreaded thing occurs, I’ll be fine. You won’t even notice.
Elizabeth:
Okay, Gretchen, it’s time for a Deep Dive into Go Outside 23 in 23.
Gretchen:
Yeah. So we’ve announced our annual challenge for ’23, which is to Go Outside 23 in 23. And in episode 412, an answer to a listener, we said we would talk about people’s ideas for how to go outside when the weather is challenging. And we got a lot of suggestions and ideas.
Elizabeth:
Yes. So Peia said, “My mom said this to me when I was young. There is no bad weather, just bad clothes. This actually rhymes in Swedish” (and I will not try to say it in Swedish). She says, “I go outside every day. Dog walkers do this too. So there isn’t an actual storm/tornado, bad air quality issues or below -20 degrees Celsius—I think that is negative four degrees Fahrenheit—then it is just go outside but wear the proper clothes.”
Gretchen:
Jenn says, “I live in Chicago and walk my children the three quarters of a mile to school every day that it’s ten degrees Fahrenheit or warmer. It can get pretty cold and windy here in Chicago. But having a clear policy eliminates any question about whether we should walk or drive on a given morning. The kids check the thermometer and know they’re going by foot. So there’s no point in asking for a ride. For people worrying about their ability to do 23 in 23 because of the weather, my advice is to set a rule now about when they go out and when they skip. Perhaps it’s the Upholder in me, but eliminating personal choice in the moment makes life easier.
“My bonus tip,” okay, we’re going to hear this again, “is to get the right gear. I’m sure many others will mention this too, but very good snow pants—adults too—makes a huge difference in the cold. Same with rain pants in the rain. Much better than an umbrella you need to wrangle. I’m also a convert to Hot Hands, instant heaters for mittens on those super cold days. They really do make a huge difference. I’m always cold indoors so if I can enjoy being out in the cold, anyone can with the right gear and mindset.”
But… and Elizabeth, you know what this reminded me: When we did our live event in Seattle, one of the listeners had the hack “In Seattle, we don’t use umbrellas. Like we just don’t bother to, we don’t fuss with them because it rains all the time.”
And I thought, Well, that’s so interesting. You could just not deal with an umbrella and just walk in the rain. Deal with it.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, just get wet.
Alisha said, “I’m so excited about Outside 23 in 23. I really find being outdoors so great for stress relief and calm. I live in Minnesota and during my outside time today I found myself stressing about the cold, cold months ahead. On those negative double digit days, although they’re sunny and bright, even 5 minutes outside is tough. So today I decided on 23 in 23 above 23 degrees. On days below that, if I can’t get outside, I’ll look outside 23 in 23 and spend time next to a sunny window enjoying the beautiful views. Thought this may be helpful for other people like me who maybe don’t like to be out there at that level of cold or possibly can’t for health reasons.”
Gretchen:
Right. Camilla picked up on this idea about the window. She had a couple of ideas. “First, sit by a window and observe the outdoors. If conditions permit, have the window open. This will give you exposure to sunlight without leaving your home. It will also allow you to notice and appreciate the subtle changes in nature around your home as seasons change.
“Two. Along the same lines, have windows or shades open to allow as much natural light into your living space as possible. Perhaps watch the sunrise or sunset every day this way. Three. Get a house plant, one that needs lots of sunlight and love so that as you care for each day you get a little exposure to the sun, even if it’s just through a window and to nature. If you can’t bring yourself into the outside world, bring the outside world to you.”
Elizabeth:
And then Hannah made an additional point to watching out the window. She said, “If they crack the window just for a few moments, they would get that invigorating, quick chill and breath of fresh air, too.”
Gretchen:
Well, and then Jamie picked up a motto that our father used to tell us. I like this. Jamie said, “I love this year’s theme of Outside 23 in 23. I live in Ohio and do not enjoy being cold. When I see the temperature on my weather app, it can get a little intimidating thinking of spending 23 minutes out there. I have discovered that applying your dad’s motto of just putting my gear on and getting out the door is often enough to help me meet my goal. Once I am dressed appropriately and out the door, I have found that I often end up staying out longer than 23 minutes. I just need the initial push to leave the house.”
Right. So maybe you don’t say, “Oh, I have to do the whole 23.” You’re like, “If I just get geared up and get outside, the door closes behind me” and then once you’re out there, it gets easier. Great idea.
Elizabeth:
Carole says, “I live in Alaska and suffer from Raynaud’s syndrome. Wearing heated socks and gloves lets me join outdoor family activities like the Winter Solstice Tree Tour, which was held on a zero degree day this year. Also, even if you have snow pants, something about the shape, convenience or feeling of a Snow Skirt removes a barrier to going outside.”
Gretch, I have never heard of a Snow Skirt
Gretchen:
I did not know that those existed. That’s great to know about.
Lauren said, “We live in a part of the country where the weather isn’t always great for going outside and we have a garage we don’t park in. So I brought some Astroturf mats and made an indoor/outdoor sports arena for my kid. When we open the garage, even when raining, we get fresh air. My yoga mat, I added in there for home workouts outside in all weather.”
Okay, so she came up sort of like a swing space.
Elizabeth:
Julie said, “I am excited for this challenge because I already started doing this. My dogs love it a little too much, to be honest. I have been heard to yell at them that I just want to go home and drink my coffee. Scruff is a stubborn dog who gets his way by laying down in the middle of the road. He weighs 100 lbs, so we go the way he wants and he loves winter. So I make sure I wear all my warm clothes and boots. I live in Iowa. Brrrr. So 23 minutes sounds like the dog’s best friend.”
Gretchen:
Yeah. No, that’s one way to get outside is because your dog really loves it. So these are great ideas. Thank you, everyone. Yeah, it’s great, like encouragement.
Elizabeth:
Yes. And it’s funny, Gretch, because, you know, it’s been raining so much in L.A., but I have managed to be outside 23 minutes so far every day in 2023.
All right. Coming up, Gretchen gives herself a peanut butter Demerit. I can’t wait to hear that one. But first, this break.
[Music]
Elizabeth:
Okay, it is time for Demerits and Gold Stars. And Gretchen, this week you are up with a Happiness Demerit.
Gretchen:
Okay, I give myself this Demerit because there’s an obvious solution to this problem. And just out of sheer… not ever dealing with it, I put up with it for such a long time. It’s like, why did I not just say one word? Okay, so in my family, a thing that people do, not me but others do, is they will eat a spoon of peanut butter or maybe they put peanut butter in a bowl.
I actually don’t know to what degree it’s Eleanor who does this or Jamie who does this, because the evidence for it is there’s just like a peanut butter-covered spoon or bowl on the counter, sometimes in the sink, often in the counter just sticking out and why didn’t I just say one night at dinner? “Hey, mysterious peanut butter eater, do not leave the peanut butter there abandoned to become incredibly difficult to clean. Just rinse it off in the moment, or at least soak it so that it comes off easily.” This has been going on, I don’t know, two or three years maybe, and every time I see it, I’m like, “Dang, I wish those people would deal with their peanut butter spoons and her peanut butter bowls.”
And then finally the other day, inspired by this, because I’m like, “This is a Demerit. You know what? I’m finally just going to say something.” And they were both like, “Okay,” neither one claimed responsibility. But they said, and I have noticed that it has been better.
Elizabeth:
So in thinking of giving yourselves the Demerit, you went forward. So that’s the purpose. So good job.
Gretchen:
It is. Yes. Done. Okay. Elizabeth. Gold Star, bring it on.
Elizabeth:
I am giving myself the Gold Star for doing all of my tracking in 2023.. I feel like I’m doing a lot of monitoring and tracking. I’m weighing myself every day, and then I’m noting it in two different places in the Happier app and in my habit-tracking Don’t Break the Chain notebook. Then I’m also, Gretchen, tracking my Go Outside 23 in 23 with a photo log on the Happier app.
And so I am not one to do this, so I’m very proud of myself for my robust tracking.
Gretchen:
Yes. Do you get like a tada thrill from it at all? Does it feel like it’s encouraging, too as well as being kind of a little bit…
Elizabeth:
Yes I’m enjoying, yes. All the noting of these things. So it’s good.
Gretchen:
Excellent. It’ll help you keep going, so Gold Star.
The resource for this week: We talked about my book beginning to make its way into the world. It’s coming to your shelves on April 18th, but if you want to see the cover, read about it, read a book excerpt. If you go to staging.gretchenrubin.com/books, you can see all that. And again, preorder the early and often.
Elizabeth:
Yes, everybody go look at the cover and then preorder.
Gretchen:
And what are we reading? Speaking of books, Elizabeth, what are you reading?
Elizabeth:
I’m reading “A Good Marriage” by Kimberly McCreight.
Gretchen:
And I am reading “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” by Gabrielle Zevin. And if you look at that book jacket, you will know one of the reasons that I was drawn to it.
And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to Try This at Home. Tune into your five senses. Let us know if you tried it and how it worked for you and what you tried.
Elizabeth:
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Cadence 13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram @gretchenrubin, and I’m @lizcraft. Our email address is podcast@staging.gretchenrubin.com.
Gretchen:
And if you like this show, please be sure to tell a friend. That is how people discover our show. You can share this episode, just hit share episode in your podcast player. We really, really appreciate it.
Elizabeth:
Until next week, I’m Elizabeth Craft.
Gretchen:
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
[Music]
Gretchen:
Elizabeth, I give you an additional Gold Star, and also Chuck a Gold Star, for dealing with these tech issues which seem to kind of mysterious and insurmountable. But we’re recording! So, you know, it’s happening.
Elizabeth:
I know. Not on my computer, however. So I’m like, “Oh, gosh.”
Gretchen:
Oh, it’s great when it works.
Elizabeth:
Yeah.
[Music]
Gretchen:
From the Onward Project.